Comments on: The taxes, the Rich, the Poor and fairness http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/ Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:29:10 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1 hourly 1 By: Socialism (Moved from Grapes of Wrath) - Page 10 - Philosophy Forum http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-983 Socialism (Moved from Grapes of Wrath) - Page 10 - Philosophy Forum Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:57:35 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-983 [...] achievement has way worse effects than racism. Again back on the taxes topic. Take a look at this: The taxes, the Rich, the Poor and fairness | Arohan's investing life __________________ So much of contemporary life is about opportunities for self-congratulation. - [...] [...] achievement has way worse effects than racism. Again back on the taxes topic. Take a look at this: The taxes, the Rich, the Poor and fairness | Arohan’s investing life __________________ So much of contemporary life is about opportunities for self-congratulation. – [...]

]]> By: laurie beggin http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-317 laurie beggin Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:43:18 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-317 They already ARE drinking overseas...and it is not that it's "friendlier" over seas...they are just more easily exploited. God Bless the US business man and his greed. It is the downfall of this country and why we have no more jobs. The rich are richer the poor are poorer and the middle class has all be disappeared. I'm a UPPER middle class tax payer who is slowly loosing my ranking. It is on OUR backs that this country rests. Not the billionaires. I agree with No. 8....the tax system is NOT this simple...only in the minds of progressive tax haters I guess. Whatever eases your guilt. Go FOX network! At least their pretty sparkly graphics keep everyone entertained. <em>laurie beggin's last blog post..<a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/LaurieBegginGlassMusings/~3/474540088/angels-among-us.html' rel="nofollow">Angels Among Us</a></em> They already ARE drinking overseas…and it is not that it’s “friendlier” over seas…they are just more easily exploited. God Bless the US business man and his greed. It is the downfall of this country and why we have no more jobs. The rich are richer the poor are poorer and the middle class has all be disappeared. I’m a UPPER middle class tax payer who is slowly loosing my ranking. It is on OUR backs that this country rests. Not the billionaires. I agree with No. 8….the tax system is NOT this simple…only in the minds of progressive tax haters I guess. Whatever eases your guilt. Go FOX network! At least their pretty sparkly graphics keep everyone entertained.

laurie beggin’s last blog post..Angels Among Us

]]> By: 100 Bottles of Beer on the Wall… « Prudence Ponder http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-314 100 Bottles of Beer on the Wall… « Prudence Ponder Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:31:59 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-314 [...] Bottles of Beer on the Wall… Here’s a simple explanation of the US tax system. I love it. It shows explicitly why there’s little sense in complaining about “tax [...] [...] Bottles of Beer on the Wall… Here’s a simple explanation of the US tax system. I love it. It shows explicitly why there’s little sense in complaining about “tax [...]

]]> By: Arohan http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-306 Arohan Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:34:25 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-306 @Dusty, Michael, Dan, thanks for reading and commenting. I think there needs to be a much greater discussion in the country about taxes and fairness @Wan, even Buffet thinks that but really, I don't see him paying any taxes. This is really not supposed to be a flip remark, just pointing out that the argument of fairness doesn't hold in the current tax regime. I doubt Adam Smith would approve of <a href="http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/05/31/ge-files-24-000-page-tax-return/" rel="nofollow">this</A> @Dusty, Michael, Dan, thanks for reading and commenting. I think there needs to be a much greater discussion in the country about taxes and fairness

@Wan, even Buffet thinks that but really, I don’t see him paying any taxes. This is really not supposed to be a flip remark, just pointing out that the argument of fairness doesn’t hold in the current tax regime. I doubt Adam Smith would approve of this

]]> By: Wan Kong Yew http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-303 Wan Kong Yew Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:34:35 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-303 Ouch, a lot of progressive tax haters in here. Remember that even Adam Smith thought that the rich should be taxed "not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion." <em>Wan Kong Yew's last blog post..<a href='http://calltoreason.org/?p=1097' rel="nofollow">Financial crisis revving up, not down</a></em> Ouch, a lot of progressive tax haters in here. Remember that even Adam Smith thought that the rich should be taxed “not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”

Wan Kong Yew’s last blog post..Financial crisis revving up, not down

]]> By: Dan_N http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-302 Dan_N Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:02:32 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-302 This is one of the better posts I have read, This was a great way of explaining our tax system. Our government wants even more from the highest taxpayers, this certainly is not fair but I guess no one ever said life was fair. <em>Dan_N's last blog post..<a href='http://theblogabouteverything.com/super-bowl-comes-to-tampa/' rel="nofollow">Super Bowl comes to Tampa</a></em> This is one of the better posts I have read, This was a great way of explaining our tax system. Our government wants even more from the highest taxpayers, this certainly is not fair but I guess no one ever said life was fair.

Dan_N’s last blog post..Super Bowl comes to Tampa

]]> By: Michael Cruse http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-266 Michael Cruse Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:04:45 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-266 Great article and follow-up comment. I live in California and upper income people and companies have been leaving the state for more accommodating locations, like Arizona. This is very sad for the state, and will cause more hardship as the upper income tax base shrinks while the lower income tax base grows. <em>Michael Cruse's last blog post..<a href='http://www.cruseit.com/2008/11/time-cannot-be-managed-but-how-you-spend-it-can/' rel="nofollow">Time cannot be managed, but how you spend it can</a></em> Great article and follow-up comment.

I live in California and upper income people and companies have been leaving the state for more accommodating locations, like Arizona. This is very sad for the state, and will cause more hardship as the upper income tax base shrinks while the lower income tax base grows.

Michael Cruse’s last blog post..Time cannot be managed, but how you spend it can

]]> By: Dusty http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-259 Dusty Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:39:59 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-259 Brilliant. Just plain brilliant! <em>Dusty's last blog post..<a href='http://chasingthebull.info/when-becoming-debt-free-what-is-your-tipping-point/' rel="nofollow">When Becoming Debt Free, What is your Tipping Point?</a></em> Brilliant. Just plain brilliant!

Dusty’s last blog post..When Becoming Debt Free, What is your Tipping Point?

]]> By: Arohan http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-257 Arohan Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:00:29 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-257 @Linda, Chris, Daniel Beatty, Apollo, Clark, Lucero, Aldon, Thanks for the comments. Although the example is very simple, it does illustrate the basics of how the tax system works. The problem is that the complexity in the system allows many in media and politics to offer up their own spin @Danny, the example has been carefully constructed. The rich person, top 1 in 10 or top 10% is supposed to represent the top 10% of the income tax filers in the country, while the bill of $100 represents 100% of all the taxes paid in the country. So what this example claims is that top 10% pay 59% of ALL income taxes. It is immaterial whether the rich person has hired a competent tax preparer to get as many breaks as possible, all I am saying is that the top 10% pay 59% of ALL taxes paid. But based on your comment I did do some fact checking and it appears that the numbers were a little bit off. It appears that the top 10% actually contribute almost 70% of ALL taxes paid in this country. Please visit the site http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html for more on this. Please also note that this data is compiled by IRS itself so should be devoid of any and all spin. With these newer numbers, my example becomes even more stark. As regard to the 'poorer' folks getting mad or not is besides the point. There are politicians who choose to spread lies and half truths about the tax situation to fan the supposed 'moral outrage' among the populace in the name of 'fairness' and 'patriotism'. The point being made is that doing this you can win an election but will drive businesses and the 'rich' to the more tax friendly shores. For those who believe that raising taxes on the rich increases tax revenues so the government can expand its social programs, the facts are stacked against them. Please read the following article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121124460502305693.html Basically, if you want to increase government tax revenues, reduce taxes so GDP grows. And GDP will grow when the taxes are reduced on business activity and investment. Increasing taxes on the rich and businesses will decrease the GDP and simultaneous expansion of social programs will put the country on the path of economic devastation @Linda, Chris, Daniel Beatty, Apollo, Clark, Lucero, Aldon, Thanks for the comments. Although the example is very simple, it does illustrate the basics of how the tax system works. The problem is that the complexity in the system allows many in media and politics to offer up their own spin

@Danny, the example has been carefully constructed. The rich person, top 1 in 10 or top 10% is supposed to represent the top 10% of the income tax filers in the country, while the bill of $100 represents 100% of all the taxes paid in the country. So what this example claims is that top 10% pay 59% of ALL income taxes. It is immaterial whether the rich person has hired a competent tax preparer to get as many breaks as possible, all I am saying is that the top 10% pay 59% of ALL taxes paid.

But based on your comment I did do some fact checking and it appears that the numbers were a little bit off. It appears that the top 10% actually contribute almost 70% of ALL taxes paid in this country. Please visit the site http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html for more on this. Please also note that this data is compiled by IRS itself so should be devoid of any and all spin.

With these newer numbers, my example becomes even more stark. As regard to the ‘poorer’ folks getting mad or not is besides the point. There are politicians who choose to spread lies and half truths about the tax situation to fan the supposed ‘moral outrage’ among the populace in the name of ‘fairness’ and ‘patriotism’. The point being made is that doing this you can win an election but will drive businesses and the ‘rich’ to the more tax friendly shores.

For those who believe that raising taxes on the rich increases tax revenues so the government can expand its social programs, the facts are stacked against them. Please read the following article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121124460502305693.html

Basically, if you want to increase government tax revenues, reduce taxes so GDP grows. And GDP will grow when the taxes are reduced on business activity and investment. Increasing taxes on the rich and businesses will decrease the GDP and simultaneous expansion of social programs will put the country on the path of economic devastation

]]> By: Danny http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-256 Danny Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:22:46 +0000 http://www.arohanvalue.com/2008/10/24/the-taxes-the-rich-the-poor-and-fairness/#comment-256 Well that's an interesting analogy in theory, but in reality it is not how the tax system works. First of all, the rich guy will usually pay far less than the $49 he owes, because he will hire someone to help him deduct the bill to a much smaller one. Secondly, the other 9 guys don’t usually get mad when the rich guy saves a bigger dollar amount, if there are across the board savings. They usually get mad when the rich guy begins to get a disproportionate number of breaks from the owner than the rest of them. If most of the breaks given by the owner are for those paying $20 or more, then the others 9 will hardly ever see any savings. Who cares if the 10th guy saves a million or a billion dollars, as long as the other 9 can save something. Well that’s an interesting analogy in theory, but in reality it is not how the tax system works. First of all, the rich guy will usually pay far less than the $49 he owes, because he will hire someone to help him deduct the bill to a much smaller one. Secondly, the other 9 guys don’t usually get mad when the rich guy saves a bigger dollar amount, if there are across the board savings. They usually get mad when the rich guy begins to get a disproportionate number of breaks from the owner than the rest of them.

If most of the breaks given by the owner are for those paying $20 or more, then the others 9 will hardly ever see any savings. Who cares if the 10th guy saves a million or a billion dollars, as long as the other 9 can save something.

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